Welcome to the Cycle Chat - Motorcycle Chat for Harley Davidson & V-Twin Motorcycle Enthusiasts forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

 
Go Back   Cycle Chat - Motorcycle Chat for Harley Davidson & V-Twin Motorcycle Enthusiasts > CycleChat's Motorcycle Hangout > Motorcycle Technical Forums
Register FAQTop Posters Site Rules Members Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Motorcycle Technical Forums For all things technical and performance related, this is the place to ask your questions and provide tips and tricks.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
------------ ------------
  #11  
Old 10-09-2009
j1mmyr1chter's Avatar
j1mmyr1chter Offline
Jimmy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Georgia
Gender: male
Posts: 667
j1mmyr1chter is on a distinguished road
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

Ok guys, heres what I saw when I pulled this thing apart last night. I got 3 issues with this primary:

1) The plates are digging into the slots they slide into and I believe this is NOT normal. Anybody with more experience got comments? I am pushing up at around 112 HP, so could this be too much for this setup?













2) I noticed that the backside of my ring gear on the clutch basket seems to be rubbing on the teeth of my jack-shaft gear on the starter. Anybody got any ideas on how to make that jack-shaft pull in a little more so the 2 dont rub??











3) When I pulled the clutch basket, I noticed that there is some play in between the inner pulley and outer pulley. When I first bought the kit, these 2 were tight as a tick. Now I can hold the clutch basket by the ring gear and shake it, and I hear rattle which is coming from between the 2 pulleys of the clutch basket. What could cause the bearings in there to go out after only a couple thousand miles?

The company is actually going to send me a new clutch basket and clutch plates under warranty, but I am worried that the same thing is just going to happen again after only a couple thousand miles. Anybody got thoughts as to whether or not this is because of my install, or is it just a bad kit, or is it just too small for my application? Thanks a ton guys!
__________________

2006 Saxon Black Crown
"Never play leapfrog with a Unicorn"
Reply With Quote

------------ ------------
  #12  
Old 10-09-2009
imrotton2's Avatar
imrotton2 Offline
just passn thru
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: alabama
Gender: male
Posts: 1,569
My Mood:
imrotton2 is on a distinguished road
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

my clutch basket was wore the same way... deffinently time to replace... i attribute my failure to my riding style.. motor is stong and the clutch hooked up good..... guess i was kinda agressive on lighting the rear tire up.. mine is pushed by 96"s&s evo
__________________
Reply With Quote
------------ ------------
  #13  
Old 10-09-2009
j1mmyr1chter's Avatar
j1mmyr1chter Offline
Jimmy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Georgia
Gender: male
Posts: 667
j1mmyr1chter is on a distinguished road
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

What primary setup are you running on yours? I am thinking that maybe a 2" belt just may not be enough for my motor?
__________________

2006 Saxon Black Crown
"Never play leapfrog with a Unicorn"
Reply With Quote
------------ ------------
  #14  
Old 10-09-2009
rednectum
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

tight belt will eat the bearing, so will caustic cleaner sprayed in there. as far as the plate chatter, lots of lugging / slipping, or cylinder imbalance on th etune. that basket looks really soft. the plates look like primo or rivera, look like the pro clutch plate design.

who made that clutch? when you get your new basket, pop the bearing out, or take your existing bearing to a bearing supply shop and get a fafnir or other quality bearing, pop one side of seal off with a scribe, pack with the blue grease (bel ray makes it) and pop seal back on. adjust tranny for bult tension and alingment.

as far as jackshaft, hard to tell, but if clutch was not aligned to motor pulley, the clutch may need shimmed out, killing two problems. or maybe you need to machine a little off jackshaft end? or shim starter out? you get the idea. but with the bearing damage and ring/drive gear issue, i would first guess the clutch is not shimmed (spaced out) properly.

finally, make sure adjuster at clutch pushrod is set correctly.

who sells that clutch? manufactor?

bwlt width should be fine, you aint broke it yet! but do rotate and check tension in several spots to see if the belt has stretched unevenly.
Reply With Quote
------------ ------------
  #15  
Old 10-09-2009
j1mmyr1chter's Avatar
j1mmyr1chter Offline
Jimmy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Georgia
Gender: male
Posts: 667
j1mmyr1chter is on a distinguished road
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

Hey Red. So, my trouble is, I dunno how tight is too tight? I know that there is not much up and down play when pushing at the center top section of the belt, but how can you possibly adjust it?? The motor plate sort of puts everything into position and you don't have any play to move tranny forward or backward due to the tranny shaft hole in the motor plate being quite stationary :-).

The primary kit is an el cheapo from Ultima. It only cost me 600 bucks, which is a drop in the bucket compared tot he big boy primaries, but I expected more than a couple thousand miles out of it!

Pulleys were dead on when I laid a straight edge across them both, so I think they were aligned pretty well. Thing that bothers me is that the bearing in there has so much play at this point that I am sure the clutch belt pulley (large outter one; sorry my terminology is pretty sucky I think haha) is surely being pulled out of true by the belt tension. Trouble is, even when they send me a new one, I am afraid its just gonna happen again.

On the jackshaft thing, you are the second person to mention shimming the starter. Help me a bit with that.. Do I need to just add washers 'under' the starter, or do I really need to fabricate a full 'spacer' that fits all the way around the starter base? I ask cause I have no good machining tools.
__________________

2006 Saxon Black Crown
"Never play leapfrog with a Unicorn"
Reply With Quote
------------ ------------
  #16  
Old 10-09-2009
rednectum
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

best route is adjusting the jackshaft length, it may just be a little long. but after what you just said about the straightedge, its possible the ring teeth were rubbing because the basket was cocked from the bad bearing. so reassemble, then check gap for ring/ drive! it may be ok. dont use washers to shim, use (may have to cut) shim stock. the cheap primary possibly isnt quite thin enough.

question: you say you bought the ultima primary kit. so i can assume that the bike came with a different type primary? one that may cure your ills is re-installed? you have 60,000 miles, and have only had the ultima stuff for 2000 miles, this says you had 58000 miles with no trouble from the saxon stuff-----right?

i reinstall the old good stuff for folks all the time. i can see the lump on their forehead most of the time.
Reply With Quote
------------ ------------
  #17  
Old 10-09-2009
j1mmyr1chter's Avatar
j1mmyr1chter Offline
Jimmy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Georgia
Gender: male
Posts: 667
j1mmyr1chter is on a distinguished road
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

Red quit pointing out the obvious correction to this problem man! You're killing me with your Vulcan logic lmao. I know, I know, the 'Harley' wet enclosed primary works like a champ (which is what mine had originally). However, my compensator sprocket 'spring' broke all to hell after the 58,000 miles I put on it, and I have always REALLY wanted to run an open belt. So the stubbornness wins. I will fight and fight until I find a working open belt system that will work :-D. I will more than likely fight with this for a few more months, then just give in and buy a really good open belt kit from BDL or Evil Engineering and be done with it. I was just trying to be cheap, and we all know in the bike world, you get what you pay for I guess. Ultima is going to hate me when this is all said and done. If I have to I will replace a dozen clutch baskets and plates within my year warranty period :-D.
__________________

2006 Saxon Black Crown
"Never play leapfrog with a Unicorn"
Reply With Quote
------------ ------------
  #18  
Old 10-09-2009
rednectum
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

yep. http://www.riveraengineering.com/ of course with the bearing support. do it at the same time you install the baker tranny, pro clutch, and rebuild the motor.

i think i see a bump on your forehead?
Reply With Quote
------------ ------------
  #19  
Old 10-09-2009
imrotton2's Avatar
imrotton2 Offline
just passn thru
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: alabama
Gender: male
Posts: 1,569
My Mood:
imrotton2 is on a distinguished road
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

im runing the revera primo clutchpack ,beltdrive closed primary.. i think its the 2" belt... last time i had it down, i installed the balance masters. on clutch and crank... they made a lota difference on the vibes... my feet at least will stay where i put um .. been 4 yrs since clutch acted up... cross fingers...
__________________
Reply With Quote
------------ ------------
  #20  
Old 10-09-2009
rednectum
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Open Belt Primary Issues

thats good stuff rotten, i love the primo rivera stuff, or primo, or rivera, or whatever the day is. evo on a softail got a little buzz does it? LOL nature of the beast. wheres the smooth spot, around 3200 rpm?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
open primary for glide fireman453 Dyna's 4 01-23-2009 02:00
Dry belt primary and clutch??????? RAIDER Engine Stuff 4 06-08-2008 08:38
Open belt drive Jobst G. Siegmund Accidents Spot 10 05-13-2008 05:27
Open Belt Drive Questions JB-Deuce Engine Stuff 7 03-09-2007 11:48
bdl open belt drive jaynuts54 Tips & Tricks 3 08-03-2006 08:47


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2003-2008 www.CycleSpot.com All rights reserved
The opinions and beliefs in posts are those of the poster and do not necessarily reflect those of the site owners