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Engine Stuff Questions about all things engine related? Here's a place for all you gearheads to sit and discuss your favorite V-twin engine, what you liked or disliked, and improvements you've made.

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Old 09-24-2012
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Crank Welding and Truing

Has anyone here had their crankshaft welded? If so, who did you use? I am slowly buying parts for ci increase and have been thinking that it may be a good idea since I am in there to get the bearings in the case replaced as well as have the cranked plugged and welded. I am looking at DarkHorse to do the work.

Does anyone here have any direct experience with DarkHorse? Thanks in advance gentleman..
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Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBiker View Post
Has anyone here had their crankshaft welded? If so, who did you use? I am slowly buying parts for ci increase and have been thinking that it may be a good idea since I am in there to get the bearings in the case replaced as well as have the cranked plugged and welded. I am looking at DarkHorse to do the work.

Does anyone here have any direct experience with DarkHorse? Thanks in advance gentleman..
I have had several trued and balanced by Darkhorse but all for larger displacement builds or for motors that have excessive crank runout. Darkhorse does good work but my next one will go to R&R; have been hearing good things about their crank program but you can't go wrong with Hoban Brothers (AKA Darkhorse)

IIRC, your build plan is to build your 2001 TC88 up to 98"? The 2001 bottom is near bullet proof; Timken crank bearing, good rods and hot forged crank. Check runout and if it's less than .003" and you don't have 100K miles on the bottom end, you don't need to spend the money on T/W/B that crank. Unless money is just burning a hole in your pocket, save that money and invest it in other modifications. JMHO.
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Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

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Originally Posted by djl View Post
I have had several trued and balanced by Darkhorse but all for larger displacement builds or for motors that have excessive crank runout. Darkhorse does good work but my next one will go to R&R; have been hearing good things about their crank program but you can't go wrong with Hoban Brothers (AKA Darkhorse)

IIRC, your build plan is to build your 2001 TC88 up to 98"? The 2001 bottom is near bullet proof; Timken crank bearing, good rods and hot forged crank. Check runout and if it's less than .003" and you don't have 100K miles on the bottom end, you don't need to spend the money on T/W/B that crank. Unless money is just burning a hole in your pocket, save that money and invest it in other modifications. JMHO.
What do you mean by TWB? and IIRC? I was just talking to Springer off of HTT and he ahd recommended R&R as well. Even with the press fit the 01 bottom ends were that solid? At this point I am assuming that runout is good as I do have gear driven cams and I haven't noticed any louder noises coming from there. Should be good, but it will get checked...
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Old 09-25-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBiker View Post
What do you mean by TWB? and IIRC? I was just talking to Springer off of HTT and he ahd recommended R&R as well. Even with the press fit the 01 bottom ends were that solid? At this point I am assuming that runout is good as I do have gear driven cams and I haven't noticed any louder noises coming from there. Should be good, but it will get checked...
TWB = true/weld/balance and IIRC, If I Recall Correctly.

You are talking about a 98" build which might make 105HP; no worries about the bottom end unless pinion ruout is greater than .003", lower unit has been abused or has rolled up enoug miles to warrant replacement of components.

My '05 95" Deuce makes 104TQ/94HP; cast crank and I ride it hard. Crank runout was .025" when I built the motor 25K miles ago. I run gear drive cams in that motor, get a little whine but overall the motor is as quiet as a stocker. 190psi CCR, compression releases and I don't worry about the bottom end; the 2001 lower unit was much more resilient.

If you were going to pull the lower unit and split the cases, you should consider spending a little more and

(a) case bore for 4.125" cylinders for an all bore 107", or
(b) install the 4.375" crank, bore cylinders as planned for a "stroked" 107"
(d) do both, build the stroker 107" now but have the potential for a 117" in the future with the larger cylinder case bore.
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Old 09-25-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

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Originally Posted by djl View Post
TWB = true/weld/balance and IIRC, If I Recall Correctly.

You are talking about a 98" build which might make 105HP; no worries about the bottom end unless pinion ruout is greater than .003", lower unit has been abused or has rolled up enoug miles to warrant replacement of components.

My '05 95" Deuce makes 104TQ/94HP; cast crank and I ride it hard. Crank runout was .025" when I built the motor 25K miles ago. I run gear drive cams in that motor, get a little whine but overall the motor is as quiet as a stocker. 190psi CCR, compression releases and I don't worry about the bottom end; the 2001 lower unit was much more resilient.

If you were going to pull the lower unit and split the cases, you should consider spending a little more and

(a) case bore for 4.125" cylinders for an all bore 107", or
(b) install the 4.375" crank, bore cylinders as planned for a "stroked" 107"
(d) do both, build the stroker 107" now but have the potential for a 117" in the future with the larger cylinder case bore.
I posted a jobber on HTT that I was quoted from one person. Take a look at it and tell me if that seems to be up to par.

Question. Forget the cost of doing this for the moment, but is it not wise to do this anyways? I mean just because the lower ends were/are stronger on the 01 bikes, does this mean the they are near break proof? 60k on a bottom end is a lot of miles. Just asking....

PDATE.... I have just decided that I am just going to leave the bottom end a lone. Thank You DJL for you help, it is much appreciated..

Last edited by JohnnyBiker : 09-25-2012 at 10:09. Reason: Added to post...
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Old 09-25-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

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Originally Posted by JohnnyBiker View Post
I posted a jobber on HTT that I was quoted from one person. Take a look at it and tell me if that seems to be up to par.

Question. Forget the cost of doing this for the moment, but is it not wise to do this anyways? I mean just because the lower ends were/are stronger on the 01 bikes, does this mean the they are near break proof? 60k on a bottom end is a lot of miles. Just asking....

PDATE.... I have just decided that I am just going to leave the bottom end a lone. Thank You DJL for you help, it is much appreciated..
It's a tough call at 60K; much easier call at 25K miles and, for me, it would depend on crank side play, whether or not I could detect any play in the rod bushings and how the fitment of the piston pin to the rod bushing bore. In other words, sending the lower unit in for re-work would depend on my assessment of the condition of the bottom end, not because I was going to build a 98" motor on top. However, if I was going into the lower unit, I would not limit displacement to 98"; just a waste of money not to build in the capacity to go bigger in the future. At a minimum, I would have the vendor install a 4.375" SE stroker crank, trued, welded and balanced to the new piston/pin/ring combination. All this detail stuff is why it's call engine "building".

Looked at the vendor list on HTT. You don't need new rods; rod bearings and new pin bushings only. Don't need the Timken conversion; already there; new bearing and race would be OK but conversion is not required. The vendor should also reveal the balance factor.

Price is not bad for the work/parts included. Don't know the vendor but I would stick with R&R or Hoban Brothers.
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Last edited by djl : 09-25-2012 at 02:37.
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Old 09-25-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

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Originally Posted by djl View Post
It's a tough call at 60K; much easier call at 25K miles and, for me, it would depend on crank side play, whether or not I could detect any play in the rod bushings and how the fitment of the piston pin to the rod bushing bore. In other words, sending the lower unit in for re-work would depend on my assessment of the condition of the bottom end, not because I was going to build a 98" motor on top. However, if I was going into the lower unit, I would not limit displacement to 98"; just a waste of money not to build in the capacity to go bigger in the future. At a minimum, I would have the vendor install a 4.375" SE stroker crank, trued, welded and balanced to the new piston/pin/ring combination. All this detail stuff is why it's call engine "building".

Looked at the vendor list on HTT. You don't need new rods; rod bearings and new pin bushings only. Don't need the Timken conversion; already there; new bearing and race would be OK but conversion is not required. The vendor should also reveal the balance factor.

Price is not bad for the work/parts included. Don't know the vendor but I would stick with R&R or Hoban Brothers.
If you read the opening post again, I asked if it would be a good idea to do these things since I am going to be in there anyways as a preventative maintenance measure. Going larger than a 98" is not in my plans.

Just curious, isn't R&R a real pill to deal with? I have heard that his turnaround takes forever and that he isn't a very nice or friendly person? I jsut got a response from DarkHorse though.....
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Old 09-26-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

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If you read the opening post again, I asked if it would be a good idea to do these things since I am going to be in there anyways as a preventative maintenance measure. Going larger than a 98" is not in my plans.

Just curious, isn't R&R a real pill to deal with? I have heard that his turnaround takes forever and that he isn't a very nice or friendly person? I jsut got a response from DarkHorse though.....
I read your opening post. But, you are not "going in there anyway", you are planning a top end build, at least that's the way I read the post. Furthermore, you failed to mention how many miles you had on the motor.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard "going larger than 95"/98" is not in my plans". I stand by my original advice. The early lower units are good for 100K plus miles if maintained and not abused; hot forged crank and Timken crank bearing. I would not pull the crank for truing, balancing and welding for a 105HP build unless crank runout exceeded .003".

However, if I decided to pull the crank, for whatever reason, I would not spend $1000 (more by the time you are done) and limit future displacement options to 98"; that would be foolish and a waste of money IMHO.

I can't speak to the turnaround at R&R and believe that dealing with the guy depends on how you deal with the guy. Call them and talk to Reggie senior and decide for yourself.
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Old 09-26-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

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I read your opening post. But, you are not "going in there anyway", you are planning a top end build, at least that's the way I read the post. Furthermore, you failed to mention how many miles you had on the motor.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard "going larger than 95"/98" is not in my plans". I stand by my original advice. The early lower units are good for 100K plus miles if maintained and not abused; hot forged crank and Timken crank bearing. I would not pull the crank for truing, balancing and welding for a 105HP build unless crank runout exceeded .003".

However, if I decided to pull the crank, for whatever reason, I would not spend $1000 (more by the time you are done) and limit future displacement options to 98"; that would be foolish and a waste of money IMHO.

I can't speak to the turnaround at R&R and believe that dealing with the guy depends on how you deal with the guy. Call them and talk to Reggie senior and decide for yourself.

Thank you for the information, it is much appreciated...

Just on a side note and just for conversation purposes but I do not suffer from the serious infection with having to constantly fuck with my bike. There are certain issues that I feel that exist with my bike as is right now and I am working on taking care of them. Just curious and again for discussion purposes, why do you think that it is so "impossible" for a person to actually build their bike once and then not touch it anymore? I don't have a need for "insane" power. I like insane power, but it isn't a "must have" for me. Again, Just trying to make conversation.
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Old 09-26-2012
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Re: Crank Welding and Truing

Johnny I think its sort of like tats. Once you get started, you cant really help wanting more. Obviously this is a generalization, your results may vary.
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