New 2-1 pipes in the latest American Iron mag

[Maalox]

Is it just me or is there a large number of manufacturers now offering a 2-1 pipes? I received my May issue of American Iron and they have ads from Python, Bassani, Bourget bike works and Sampson all offering new 2-1 systems.

What do you think?

[Zbubba]

It seems clear that the 2-1 system(s) provide the better performance design. I'm hoping that the competition for our $$ will produce some quality products that also have great style.

[fbomer]

Zbubba First off, Welcome to Cycle Chat!

And no, it's not just you. I think the 2-1 is all the rave these days because of the performance gains over the 2-2.

I have always been a 2-2 fan, but the more I see the new 2-1's coming out, and the more I read about prformance gains... they are beginning to grow on me...

I'd like to see price come down, and style go up... should be interesting to watch!

[1BADFXST]

2 into 1 pipes have great performace gains yes this is true but for classic harley appearence/looks they s u c k the big fatty. just my two cents.

Sorry I just needed something to post...LOL

[fbomer]

1BAD, U R BAD... I'll bet you are just ROTFLOL at your self! :spank:

I know I am always thinking "I kill me..." :sick:

[1BADFXST]

1BAD, U R BAD... I'll bet you are just ROTFLOL at your self! :spank:

I know I am always thinking "I kill me..." :sick:

Sorry I will try and behave!!!!

[Dyna Jim]

I recently put on a 2 into 1 and I'm not thrilled with the look. But I'm a performance guy, and the Fatcat is one of if ot the best 2 into 1 out there right now. And well it sounds cool.....


My .02

[Ammoman]

What do cross over pipes do or don't do what a 2 into one can?

[fbomer]

Amo- really good question!

To bad I have no idea... DJ will know! :worship:

[Dyna Jim]

A crossover pipe like the power chamber, uses pulse technology to draw out reversion from the headpipe. A true 2 into 1 has very little if any reversion characteristic because of the two pipes blending together and scavenging is much better on a 2 into 1. 2 into 1 pipes make huge gains in low RPM performance over just about any 2 into 2, and nowadays they run better up in the upper RPMS too! :flamejump

Power chambers or corssovers are as close to 2 into 1 technology as they have come with 2 into 2 pipes so far.

[Ammoman]

So if that is true, reversion / scavaging etc. What is a nominal HP / Torque improvent result on say a stock TC 88?

[Dyna Jim]

So if that is true, reversion / scavaging etc. What is a nominal HP / Torque improvent result on say a stock TC 88?

Typical improvements in performance with a good exhaust system like a power chamber pipe or a 2into 1 with proper fuel and high flow air filter is 10-15%. The 2 into 1 will be on the higher end of this percentage, and will aslo gain more in the lower RPM band than the 2 into 2 pipe will. Other mods greatly affect what pipe or which type you should really use, but in general 2 into 1 is the better of the choices. Having said that, I'm not excited about the look of a 2 into 1 on my bike, I put it on for performance, which it gave me. I may in the future however switch back for looks, I don't know just yet.

Exhaust sould be a 50/50 balance between performance and astetics IMHO. If you just want the best performing pipe no matter what, then it's most likely going to be a 2 into 1.

[Mike G]

I put the D&D on my otherwise stock 04 Dyna with the SE A/C kit, Stage 1 download, USB Powercommander, and custom dyno tune via the Powercommander "Tuning Link". Bike made 76.25 hp and 79.59 torque. The hp and torque curves are very smooth. The A/F is almost dead straight going from 13.0:1 to 13.2:1 Needless to say I like the way my combo performs. The big thing to me is that I do not own a Harley to go racing from light to light or to scrape the footpegs on some twisties. I own a Harley because I like to go cruising.

The looks of the D&D FatCat are nothing more than OK to me. I have had several comment on the 4" muffler. Everything from “that looks cool” to “WTF is that”. I must admit that I'm not thrilled with the way the bike looks from behind but it is different. You don’t see very many on the street. In fact I have never seen another FatCat on the street while riding. At the Harley dealer is another story. I think that the Python and V&H Big Shot Staggered pipes look about as good as it gets. I also like the look and sound of the V&H Longshots but my dyno guy said that I will loose quite a bit of power with that pipe. This guy tunes an average of 10 bikes a week at the Harley shop where he works. As far as performance the FatCat beats everything in his experience.

Now for the sound. Mine has the competition baffle and I can’t tell the difference in sound from the stock baffle. The sound of the FatCat is not the traditional Harley sound. It has more of a well tuned race-car sound. Kind of like a NASCAR. I love that sound on a car, but on my bike? I think that I prefer the traditional sound of a good 2:2 pipe. It is more like rolling thunder, deep, loud, rich, and definitely Harley. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I am leaning towards selling the pipe and picking up the Python or V&H Big Shot Staggered pipe. What a PITA.

[Ammoman]

Mike G,
Thanks for your comments. They go a long way for explaining both sides of this often complex issue. Like Dyna Jim said earlier a compromise in performance and aesthetics is what he strives for and I tend to agree. Looks like your heading down that path also. Good Luck. Keep us posted.

[Mike G]

Well my mind is made up. :whatever: I went for a long ride on Sunday morning all by my lonesome. I was getting into the FatCat sound and figured what the hell, it's different and I'll keep it. That was right up until the time a guy rolls up on a Softail standard with a set of V&H Big Shot Staggered pipes. I had just pulled into the local Harley dealer and shut my scooter down. All I heard was this beautiful music coming out of these pipes and it sounded soooooooo gooooooood! I decided right then and there that the FatCat must go BYE BYE! :wave: The thing that makes me so angry is that I almost bought the V&H BS Staggered pipes to begin with. Oh well it's only money.......right?

[Ammoman]

Well my mind is made up. :whatever: I went for a long ride on Sunday morning all by my lonesome. I was getting into the FatCat sound and figured what the hell, it's different and I'll keep it. That was right up until the time a guy rolls up on a Softail standard with a set of V&H Big Shot Staggered pipes. I had just pulled into the local Harley dealer and shut the my scooter down. All I heard was this beautiful music coming out of these pipes and it sounded soooooooo gooooooood! I decided right then and there that the FatCat must go BYE BYE! :wave: The thing that makes me so angry is that I almost bought the V&H BS Staggered pipes to begin with. Oh well it's only money.......right?

Yea it's only money but if you aren't satisfied you won't enjoy it as much and enjoyment is what this is all about. Good luck!

PS if you can post before & after pics it would be great! We luv that stuff here and it always helps others in descisions. :bounce1:

[Wind]

Mike G.,
Thanks for your input and welcome to cyclechat. Good to have a new member that jumps right in and shares.

[fbomer]

Hi MikeG... V&H Big Shots are great pipes... but if you want to save a buck and have a great looking/sounding pipe... check out the Python Dual Staggerds made by V&H for Drag Specialties... They are a twin to the Big Shot Staggerds and Sound Incredible...

A bunch of us here at Cycle Chat run with Pythons and you will get a lot of votes in support of the sound, looks and performance... Check out my gallery, DJ's gallery... and Deuce02's gallery... for Python pics...

[Mike G]

My neighbor right next door has the Python Dual Stagger pipes on his 03 Heritage. To me the V&H and Pythons sound different. I think the V&H are just a touch deeper which I like. Both sound great but I think I'll go with the V&H. I like the interchangeable tips. I particularly like the straight billet tips. Now all I have to do is sell the D&D FatCat.

[Mike G]

Ordered the V&H BS Staggered from CycleSpot on 6/10/04. The only problem is that they are on backorder. :mad: Good news is it will not be too long until they ship. They have an expected delivery date of 6/21/04.

I've had quite a bit of views at my "For Sale" post on the FatCat but no buyers. I posted the ad here and on v-twinforum which also had a number of views. I'm sure it will sell for the price I posted, but I think my local Harley dealer will be the one who gets me the sale. The dyno guy there is big on the FatCat and they sell quite a few of them. He was surprised I was selling so cheap.

[Mike G]

Well here we are again 6/24/04 and the word from Jim is that V&H has failed to deliver on 6/21/04. V&H has moved the tentative delivery date out to 7/5/04 and there is no guaranty on that date either. Apparently V&H has had this delivery problem for a while, at least this year. They seem more interested in making Softail pipes than Dyna pipes and I can understand the supply and demand equation. However, I am not willing to tolerate another delay, find it unacceptable, and feel that the V&H pipes just are not worth the wait.

I called Jim back today and after a short conversation opted to go with the Rinehart Flush pipes. The only thing that stopped me from looking at them the first time was the retail price. At this point I not worried about the small money difference (thanks to the discounted price @ CycleSpot) between the Rinehart and V&H pipes. I want to get the FatCat off my bike and get back to the traditional Harley sound. I had an opportunity to listen to the Rinehart pipes last night and that is what prompted me to inquire about them with Jim today. I’ll have the Rinehart Flush pipes sometime next week, I can’t wait. :flamejump

[Audible]

Had SE slip-ons = too tinn-y. Added Thunderheader = Happy

Good sound and much better bottom end power. :gasthrowe

But, as we all say, got with whatever blows your skirt up :elk:


Audible :gasthrowe

[theiceman]

2 into 1 was created for the soll purpose of performance and performance only.a good looking pipe on this configuration is the rinehart 2 to 1.check it out at the bub website.

bub.com/Motorcycles/Harley/FL/R5-2395/R5-2395.html this pipe not only looks good but it also has all of the antirevertion qualities.(my hunble opinion)

[Stratus12]

2 into 1 pipes have great performace gains yes this is true but for classic harley appearence/looks they s u c k the big fatty. just my two cents.

Sorry I just needed something to post...LOL

i agree ome of the 2-1 pipes are extreme looking and venture far from a true harley look (VH big radius), but there are a few that look classic and perform like no other. mine imho, doesnt stray to far from the beaten path, and gives me the HP/TQ numbers i crave...lol.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/Hawser/Picture097.jpg

[bodhi]

i agree ome of the 2-1 pipes are extreme looking and venture far from a true harley look (VH big radius), but there are a few that look classic and perform like no other. mine imho, doesnt stray to far from the beaten path, and gives me the HP/TQ numbers i crave...lol.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/Hawser/Picture097.jpg

Nice Bike! :thumbup:

I had the dealership throw on a Rinehart 2-1 before I even picked up the bike (06 FXDBI). They also did the AC upgrade and Stage 1 download. Later I went ahead and added a PCIII. I was kind of disappointed with the sound (quiet) and the looks were ok, but the performance didn't seem good enough to warrant keeping them. Got the Bub Jug Huggers instead based entirely on looks and sound ... and man do they look and sound great! I can't tell a difference in performance either. I'm sure if I ran each pipe on the dyno the numbers would look different but if I can't feel it in the seat of my pants, what's the point? Anyone else had this kind of comparison experience? I sometimes wonder if the 2-1 performance thing is blown a little out of proportion?

[Stratus12]

you know i only tried 2-1 pipes throught the entire dyno period. D&D, TH and my R&B. it would be interesting to throw on a set of true duals/drag pipes for yucks and see what numbers they produce compared to the 2-1's. im having 131" moter being built by R&R as we speak, ill see what i can find for pipes and will put the dyno runs up for all to see. Great idea! you have me wondering myself. im quite sure the 2-1's will run away with it, but by how much?, and will it be significant enough to influence a purchase.

[exboypop]

of all the new 2-1pipes any opinions on brand for 07 softal deluxe?
boypop

[Electropiep]

I have heard that the 2/2 cycle shacks will perform with the best 2/1. Performance and the old look.

[Stratus12]

Rinehart, D&D Fatcat or Borzilla, R&B all make some great 2-1 pipes.

[Stratus12]

someday you'll start your fire breathing HD up and the only noise you'll hear will be the spark plugs popping...lol.