Hmmm

[Dyna Jim]

This was emailed to me today, I can neither confirm or deny the validity of it.
DJ

"The following message was set to you via the Cycle Chat Contact Us form by carol.

--------------------------------

As of June 13, 2005 the Laborers' International Union of North America local union 1357 has engage in a work stoppage at Airo Die Casting of Loyalhanna ,PA.

Airo is a supplier to H-D For their cosmetic chrome pieces.

Airo has brought in scab worker to continue

Production on these parts.

This is totally unacceptable to have scabs

Producing parts for an American made bike

So please take a couple of minutes and send a letter to

Harley Davidson and Airo telling them that you are outraged that scab workers are making parts for

The legendary Harley Davidson motor co.



To contact the Motor Company directly, please write:
Harley-Davidson Customer Service
3700 W. Juneau Avenue
Milwaukee, WI 53208
To speak with a Harley-Davidson customer service representative call (414) 343-4056"

[hefitz04wg]

No simpathy here. I have no use for unions. Are they saying that the "scabs" are not Americans?

If i were inclined to write to H-D or Airo, it would be to encourage them to get rid of their union labor. The only ones who get rich off union labor are the unions themselves.

[Vulcan160]

No simpathy here. I have no use for unions. Are they saying that the "scabs" are not Americans?

If i were inclined to write to H-D or Airo, it would be to encourage them to get rid of their union labor. The only ones who get rich off union labor are the unions themselves.

I can appreciate that you have no need for union's. However in many parts of the country still to this day, union's are the only thing that stands between greedy corperations/goverment management from taking advantage of workers. I do know the the culture primarily of the north eastern states is most comanies to include city employers will go as far to abuse and take advantage of many workers unless legaly contracted to not do so. And in many cases they violate labor laws and still try to take advantage. I also have had the pleasure of working for a city that appreciates those who work for them and unions aren't as needed. Please take a moment to investigate the situation prior to making such a blanket statement against unions



Proud member if the IAFF

[04standard]

Gotta agree with hef. Unions **** :gun2:

[Turk2500]

Just a little drift from the original post, but my first reaction is that this isn't the best time for any union to test "ANY" manufacturing company's ability to maintain and/or add "cost" to it's overhead.

I believe there was a time when unions served a purpose, but times have dramatically changed. Over the last few years numrous Michigan based manufacturing companies have either closed their doors, or moved out of state because of the old union hard nose attitude when sitting at the negotiation table.

The whole dynamics of manufactiring in the Mid-West has been forced to reinvent itself so it can survive in the Global market place. It's time to "get real"!

:usaflag:

[Vulcan160]

Just a little drift from the original post, but my first reaction is that this isn't the best time for any union to test "ANY" manufacturing company's ability to maintain and/or add "cost" to it's overhead.

I believe there was a time when unions served a purpose, but times have dramatically changed. Over the last few years numrous Michigan based manufacturing companies have either closed their doors, or moved out of state because of the old union hard nose attitude when sitting at the negotiation table.

The whole dynamics of manufactiring in the Mid-West has been forced to reinvent itself so it can survive in the Global market place. It's time to "get real"!

:usaflag:

You know Turk you have a really good point. I've seen such ugly results when union leaders/negotiators play hardass when it isn't neccessary. Impasse's declared mediators getting involved then labor courts etc. When things like that happen nobody really comes out unscathed and union's look very bad indeed. My experience has mostly been in the civil service arena. I have seen some municipalities treat their employee's worse than dogs and it has been the presence of their respective union's that really come through and make for a better environment for the members as well as the public they serve. I do shake my head however when I see some places try to organize unions in places where a) the workers seem to be very well taken care off b) management and production is peak. Some of these "union's" want to come in and negotiate a contract which in turn runs up production costs and overhead. result, layoff's or bankruptcy of the company or movement oversea's. Some companies however do move outside the US when union's come in because they can pay next to nothing for slave type labor and make large profits even bigger. Then blame the union for moving from an area leaving prople unemployed. It's like it may be bad working here but you have a job so deal with it. Like I said before I've seen very good and very neccessary instances where unions were needed. I've also seen examples that support the initial negative post towards union's. I was merely pointing out that not ALL union's are bad and/useless. Like people some are good and some are bad.

[Pancho]

I've lived and worked in union closed shop states and non-union states. I'll take non-union any day of the week. A union calling a corp. greedy is like the pot calling the kettle black. Some businesses might be corupt, but all unions are corrupt--plenty corrupt. The days of Jimmy Hoffa, maybe being a little shady, but keeping the working man first in his heart, are long gone. Today's unions are just another racket, padding the pockets of the union bosses. Let me work, and get out of my way.

Also, I don't like what they do with the dues. They give them to the people and politicians that seem to be the most destructive and anti-American--the sort of people I would never vote for. Pro abortion, pro h_m_s_xual, pro taxes, anti-firearms, anti-hunting, anti christian. I don't get it. They just don't represent anything that is important to me, and support those that would harm me and my family. They sort of reach into our lives to re-arrange things. Why don't they just leave us alone, and mind their own business/

[Vulcan160]

I've lived and worked in union closed shop states and non-union states. I'll take non-union any day of the week. A union calling a corp. greedy is like the pot calling the kettle black. Some businesses might be corupt, but all unions are corrupt--plenty corrupt. The days of Jimmy Hoffa, maybe being a little shady, but keeping the working man first in his heart, are long gone. Today's unions are just another racket, padding the pockets of the union bosses. Let me work, and get out of my way.

Also, I don't like what they do with the dues. They give them to the people and politicians that seem to be the most destructive and anti-American--the sort of people I would never vote for.

Dude so you're telling me that you have dealt with EVERY SINGLE union in existance in this country? Don't think so. I've dealt with several union's in the course of my career and only one seemed shady to me. To say every union is corrupt is just wrong. Unless you've been a member of every union. Remember the union is made up of people. As a union member I AM my union. Am I corrupt? I serve the public and I'm not getting rich doing it or ripping anyone off. I'm amazed that some people on this board can only see one very hard line all or nothing view of things. It appears this site really is a microcosm of society today. Did you even bother to read my post? I mean all of the post. Why is it that I can acknowledge the fact that yes some union's are bad corrupt whatever negative conaltation you want to assign them, but you cannot concede that not ALL union's are that way. And It is my positition that there are more union's that provide a positive influence for their workers than bad ones. So you've had bad deallings with one or a few union's. Sucks for you. But to say what you did wihout the benefit of working and living in every occupation and region of this country puts you in the talking out of your hindparts category. Which is probably where you store ur brain housing group.

[NCFatBoy]

Just a little drift from the original post, but my first reaction is that this isn't the best time for any union to test "ANY" manufacturing company's ability to maintain and/or add "cost" to it's overhead.

I believe there was a time when unions served a purpose, but times have dramatically changed.

My father was a union worker and despite the union being corrupt or greedy, it was good for him. In many of our lifetimes, we have not experienced economic conditions that would illustrate first hand the usefulness of unions. I myself have been of the same basic position.

In today's corporate world of profitability and the lack of a "growing" economy, profits are being "generated" via micro-management of expense, which includes reduction of benefits and layoffs.

Unfortnately, unless there's a significant change in the economical climate, and although I tend to agree that it's not a good time for unions to challenge corporate costs/expenses, theres a good possibility the current corporate (Wall Street) climate could lead to a resurgence of unions.

[Pancho]

Gee whiz, Einstein, maybe you're the one that should read your own posts:

"...to say what you did wihout the benefit of working and living in every occupation and region of this country puts you in the talking out of your hindparts category."

I guess, that includes you too. So, according to your flawless philosophy, Dude, you are grossly unqualified too discuss the subject. Unless, or course, Dude, your rules apply to others but not to you. But, then, that makes you corrupt, you know, like the union, ... Dude.

You and your union are perfect company for each other, Dude.

I'm off this thread, Dude. It's all yours, Dude.

[samsd]

One thing to say, I have worked in an union enviroment and now without and prefer without. No threat of strikes or job actions and civility rules. Now, one question, when a union goes on strike and Joe Laborer loses his paycheck, do the union bosses also lose a paycheck?

[Vulcan160]

Gee whiz, Einstein, maybe you're the one that should read your own posts:

"...to say what you did wihout the benefit of working and living in every occupation and region of this country puts you in the talking out of your hindparts category."

I guess, that includes you too. So, according to your flawless philosophy, Dude, you are grossly unqualified too discuss the subject. Unless, or course, Dude, your rules apply to others but not to you. But, then, that makes you corrupt, you know, like the union, ... Dude.

You and your union are perfect company for each other, Dude.

I'm off this thread, Dude. It's all yours, Dude.

Hit and run huh. Well guess what? You've just shown that you do not possess the ability to make logical deductions or engage in critical thinking. YOU made a blanket statement covering EVERY union or possible scenario. I however did not. Therefore I find myself perfectly qualified to say what I said without fear of contradicting myself. And the old run and gun method of responding illustrates your own inability to dialog when you don't want to admit that maybe, just maybe you spoke out of school. So in the meantime be safe, stay in the wind and try not to get involved in battles of intellect. In your case it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

[Vulcan160]

One thing to say, I have worked in an union enviroment and now without and prefer without. No threat of strikes or job actions and civility rules. Now, one question, when a union goes on strike and Joe Laborer loses his paycheck, do the union bosses also lose a paycheck?

That's a good question. I for one don't know. Every union (with one exception) I've been a member of has never considered going on strike. And even if they did want to they would have been prohibited by law from doing so. There are also sustantial penalties/consequences from any kind of job actions. The one job that I did have where there was a union that could strike I didn't like at all. I did resent that I had to join to work. I was happy that I didn't work there long before I was able to get on the job that I was waiting for. So I can say with all honesty that some unions ARE corrupt, and in some cases it would be beneficial to be without the presence of the union if in fact that union is more concerned with the union officers than the workers they represent. But I can also say that I have had VERY positive and welcome security and representation from some unions. Again the issue isn't that cut and dried. Certainly not enough to use the example of one or two unions as fair and competant evidence that all unions or union officers are unneeded, unfair, or corrupt.